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Oud vr 25 mrt 2005, 00:09   #1
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Voeding tijdens workout  

Via ergogenics.org ben ik op het volgende artikel gekomen. Volgens dit artikel blijkt dus door een bepaalde hoeveelheid eiwitten toe te voegen aan een sportdrankje tijdens de workout je je resultaten drastisch kan verbeteren. Iemand zijn visie hierop?


Trainers turning to "nutrient timing" to enhance athletic performance
published in the Asbury Park Press 03/24/05
By ROBERT PORTMAN



Within the past decade, exercise scientists have made a number of important discoveries about how the muscles work during exercise and how they adapt to training. As these mechanisms have been better defined, exercise scientists have also found that targeted nutritional interventions before, during and after exercise are able to produce enormous gains in muscle performance — a set of practices sometimes referred to collectively as "nutrient timing." We now know that by consuming the right combinations of nutrients at just the right times, athletes may drastically slow the processes that break down muscle and enhance those that build it.

One of the primary actions of anabolic steroids is that they help the muscles recover faster after exercise. This enables an athlete to come back stronger the next day with a more intense workout and thereby increase muscle mass much more quickly. But researchers are now finding that nutrition consumed when the body's hormonal environment is in a building mode can produce a similar effect.

For example, researchers have demonstrated that consuming carbohydrates and proteins in the right ratio immediately after exercise can accelerate protein synthesis, the process by which muscle gets bigger and stronger, by up to 300 percent. Researchers are also finding more effective ways to use nutrition during exercise.

Four decades ago, it was established that consuming water, carbohydrate and electrolytes (the basic formula of a sports drink) during exercise increases endurance and the benefits of endurance training. Recently, scientists from the University of Texas and James Madison University have shown that adding a small amount of protein to a conventional sports drink provides additional benefits in terms of improved performance, a reduction in post-exercise muscle damage (muscle soreness) and faster recovery.

Muscle gains using the nutritional principles delineated by this research are far more compatible with the body's ability to integrate muscle growth than the steroids shortcut. Steroid use increases the injury rate among athletes, whereas nutrient timing practices may lower the injury rate. Ultimately, athletes reach a higher level of performance when they stay healthy and are able to train consistently for a long period of time. Steroids are not a recipe for long-term success in sports. Nutrient timing is.

This research is no longer merely an observation in the laboratory. Coach Joe Vigil of Running USA is a strong proponent of using nutrient timing to improve the performance of his long-distance runners. In the Athens Olympics, two of his runners won medals in the marathon, something no U.S. athlete had done in 20 years.

How do we disseminate this new information so that it can be incorporated into the training programs of athletes of all ages and in all sports? It requires a paradigm shift. Coaches, parents and athletes must be taught that nutrition and nutrient timing are powerful tools that can help them improve their athletic performance. It is not a question of just eating healthy. It is a question of using nutrition to help athletes perform at their individual peak, whatever that may be.


Robert Portman is chief scientific officer at PacificHealth Laboratories, Old Bridge, a nutrition technology company.
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Oud vr 25 mrt 2005, 00:23   #2
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

BTW: Jammer dat er niet word bijvermeld hoeveel eiwitten dan.
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Oud za 26 mrt 2005, 00:16   #3
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

test is wel uitgevoerd op endurance atleten, dus of het ook daadwerkelijk van nut is voor een krachtsporter is nog vaag.
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Oud za 26 mrt 2005, 12:06   #4
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Neem een uur voor het trainen altijd een eiwit shake, tijdens het trainen een Whey
Amino Drink en 1,5 uur na het trainen een eiwit rijke maaltijd, werkt super voor mij .
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Oud za 26 mrt 2005, 20:22   #5
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Citaat:
test is wel uitgevoerd op endurance atleten, dus of het ook daadwerkelijk van nut is voor een krachtsporter is nog vaag.
Ik kan hieruit opmaken dat het wel degelijk ook voor bodybuilders nuttig is..

Citaat:
We now know that by consuming the right combinations of nutrients at just the right times, athletes may drastically slow the processes that break down muscle and enhance those that build it.
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Oud za 26 mrt 2005, 23:34   #6
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

hmm, had ik waarschijnlijk overgelezen, thx bro. Maar dat voeding timen een belangrijke rol speelt bij herstel is niets nieuws lijkt me?
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 00:16   #7
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Citaat:
Origineel gepost door Dr. Worf
Recently, scientists from the University of Texas and James Madison University have shown that adding a small amount of protein to a conventional sports drink provides additional benefits in terms of improved performance, a reduction in post-exercise muscle damage (muscle soreness) and faster recovery.

Het betreft hier wel 2 afzonderlijk onderzoeken met ieder hun eigen conclusie

Even wat sleur&pleur

In a new book called Nutrient Timing, exercise physiologist John Ivy, Ph.D., and biochemist Robert Portman, Ph.D., argue that when athletes eat is as important as what they eat. Citing dozens of recent studies, they make a solid case. Although Nutrient Timing is aimed primarily at an audience of strength athletes, there is a lot of information in the book that is valuable to endurance athletes as well.

Most endurance athletes are aware that it’s beneficial to drink a carbohydrate sports drink during exercise. But according to the authors of Nutrient Timing, there are many other beneficial ways to use nutrition during and after exercise that most endurance athletes don’t know about. Here are five of them:

1. Consuming protein with carbohydrate during exercise increases endurance

It appears that the effectiveness of carbohydrate consumption during exercise is limited by the maximum rate at which the liver can release glucose into the bloodstream – about 1 gram per minute. It’s not hard to consume enough carbohydrate in a sports drink to reach this limit, and consuming any more will not help.

But the muscles can also use protein for energy. A study at the University of Texas compared the effects of a carbohydrate and a carbohydrate-protein supplement on endurance performance. Trained cyclists exercised at variable exercise intensities for three hours, then they cycled 85% at VO2max until exhausted. Two hundred ml of each of three supplements (water, carbohydrate, carbohydrate-protein) was provided every 20 minutes. The carbohydrate-protein drink increased time to exhaustion by 36% over the carbohydrate supplement and by 55% more than water.

2. Consuming protein during exercise reduces muscle damage

When protein is not consumed during exercise, muscle proteins are broken down for energy, resulting in muscle damage. When protein is consumed during exercise, such damage is minimized.

This was demonstrated in a study at James Madison University. Researchers fed either a regular carbohydrate sports drink or a carbohydrate-protein drink to subjects during a hard stationary bike ride and measured post-exercise levels of creatine phosphokinase (CPK) in the blood. CPK is a biomarker of muscle damage. The subjects receiving the carbohydrate/protein supplement had CPK levels 83% lower than those receiving the carbohydrate supplement, indicating significantly less muscle damage during exercise.

3. The sooner you consume nutrients after exercise, the more effective they are

The muscle cells are especially insulin sensitive for the first 45 minutes after exercise is completed. Consuming carbohydrate and protein within this 45-minute window will therefore stimulate the muscle recovery processes much more powerfully than consuming the same nutrients later.

In a study at Vanderbilt University, researchers looked at the effect of a carbohydrate-protein supplement on protein synthesis following a sixty-minute bout of exercise. Subjects were given the supplement immediately after exercise or three hours later. Protein synthesis was almost three times higher when the supplement was given immediately after the workout. Other studies have shown a similar pattern with respect to muscle glycogen replenishment.

4. Post-exercise nutrition reduces injuries and sickness

In a remarkable new study, Marine recruits representing six platoons were assigned to one of three treatment protocols during 54 days of basic training. Each day after exercise, some Marines received a carbohydrate drink, others a carbohydrate-protein drink, and still others flavored water.

The investigators report that the protein supplemented group had an average of 33% fewer total medical visits, 28% fewer visits due to bacterial/viral infections, 37% fewer visits due to muscle/joint problems, and 83% fewer visits due to heat exhaustion compared to members of the other groups. They also had less muscle soreness.

This new evidence indicates that athletes in heavy training will maintain a higher level of health and performance if they consume a carbohydrate-protein supplement immediately following each workout. However, the mechanisms for some of these effects are not all entirely clear and will require further study.

5. Post-exercise nutrition improves performance in the next workout

It stands to reason that if immediate supplementation after exercise results in a faster, stronger recovery, it could also improve performance in the next workout. The James Madison University study cited above showed this to be the case.

After completing a performance ride on day one, the subjects of this study were asked to come back after a 15-hour recovery period. Upon returning, the subjects performed a ride to exhaustion at 85% of their VO2max. Subjects receiving the carbohydrate/protein drink during the initial performance ride the day before were able to ride almost 40% longer than those receiving the carbohydrate drink during the prior exercise.

Summary

The science of sports nutrition has come a long way since the first sports drinks were formulated back in the 60s. It’s time to bring your sports nutrition practice into the 21st century. The principles of Nutrient Timing show you how.

http://www.poweringmuscles.com/artic...?article_id=45
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 08:40   #8
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Ik neem nu een maltodextrine shake 30 voor-50 tijdens en na de training 40+30 druivensuiker. Nu lees ik dus het ook goed is om whey tijdens de training te nemen. In welke hoeveelheid zou je dan het beste kunnen nemen?
Zelf neem ik 30gr whey voor de training en een blend 55gr eiwit na de training.
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 11:51   #9
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

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When protein is not consumed during exercise, muscle proteins are broken down for energy, resulting in muscle damage. When protein is consumed during exercise, such damage is minimized.

This was demonstrated in a study at James Madison University. Researchers fed either a regular carbohydrate sports drink or a carbohydrate-protein drink to subjects during a hard stationary bike ride and measured post-exercise levels of creatine phosphokinase (CPK) in the blood. CPK is a biomarker of muscle damage. The subjects receiving the carbohydrate/protein supplement had CPK levels 83% lower than those receiving the carbohydrate supplement, indicating significantly less muscle damage during exercise.
83% vind ik idd een erg groot verschil. Zijn dit nu echt schokkende ontdekkingen of was dit al langer bekend? Nooit geweten dat proteine tijdens te training zoveel verschil kon maken, ik ga hier ook maar eens mee beginnen. Ik vraag me alleen af wat het beste tijdstip is voor deze "tijdens workout shake", is dat na de warming up?


@3XL: Thanx voor de aanvullende info!
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 12:13   #10
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Het klinkt allemaal erg goed, maar als je al die shakies gaat doen pre/tijdens/post dan kost dat een klap geld.

Zou je ook tijdens de training bv magere melk (0,5/1 L) kunnen drinken. Lest te minste goed de dorst en is niet zo duur?!

Of zou je wat van die shakes kunnen vervangen door een bak kwark?
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 14:10   #11
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Citaat:
Zou je ook tijdens de training bv magere melk (0,5/1 L) kunnen drinken. Lest te minste goed de dorst en is niet zo duur?!

Of zou je wat van die shakes kunnen vervangen door een bak kwark?
Zowel melk als kwark zijn geen optie, ze bevatten allebei caseinaat eiwit en dit is een 'traag' eiwit. Je lichaam heeft dus direct de behoefte aan eiwit dus is de snelle whey eiwit de enige optie.
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 14:49   #12
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Dus wanneer je eiwitten tijdens je training wil nuttigen neem dan wei met water. Ik hou het enkel bij water en vitamine C .
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 14:55   #13
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Natuurlijk moet je ok naar je knip kijken. Maar dit soort onderzoek moet je hanteren als een soort van richtlijn. Belangrijkste punt hierin is dat aminozuren ook hun nut kunnen hebben tijdens de training.

Maar als je financieen het niet toelaten om tijdens de training makkelijk bereikbare eiwitten te nemen (denk aan hydrolisaten) kan je ook voor de training iets anders nemen wat wel betaalbaar is.

Hou gewoon altijd in de gaten dat er tussen optimaal en haalbaar altijd wel een verschil zal zitten (tenzij je een pro bent en er juist voor betaald krijgt natuurlijk )
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 15:03   #14
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Heb whey zat, dus kan er wel flink van vreten
Maar welke doseringen whey zou je het beste rond en tijdens de trainingen kunnen nemen?
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 16:19   #15
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

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Hou gewoon altijd in de gaten dat er tussen optimaal en haalbaar altijd wel een verschil zal zitten
Het lijkt mij wel haalbaar om tijdens de training 30gr whey met water te nemen en direct na de training whey met melk en dextrose. Als ik dan s'middags ergens ook nog een whey neem zit ik aan m'n 3 shakes per dag, dat is voor mij m'n maximum wat ik neem aan shakes per dag.
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 18:08   #16
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Als je 1 tot 2 uur voor je training melk oid neemt komen die eiwitten in principe toch gewoon op het juiste moment beschikbaar? Waarom zou je per se snel eiwit tijdens ipv traag eiwit voor de training moeten hebben?
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 19:35   #17
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

Schijnbaar niet alles gelezen ? ? Nog een keer dan.


1. Consuming protein with carbohydrate during exercise increases endurance

It appears that the effectiveness of carbohydrate consumption during exercise is limited by the maximum rate at which the liver can release glucose into the bloodstream – about 1 gram per minute. It’s not hard to consume enough carbohydrate in a sports drink to reach this limit, and consuming any more will not help.

But the muscles can also use protein for energy. A study at the University of Texas compared the effects of a carbohydrate and a carbohydrate-protein supplement on endurance performance. Trained cyclists exercised at variable exercise intensities for three hours, then they cycled 85% at VO2max until exhausted. Two hundred ml of each of three supplements (water, carbohydrate, carbohydrate-protein) was provided every 20 minutes. The carbohydrate-protein drink increased time to exhaustion by 36% over the carbohydrate supplement and by 55% more than water.


2. Consuming protein during exercise reduces muscle damage

When protein is not consumed during exercise, muscle proteins are broken down for energy, resulting in muscle damage. When protein is consumed during exercise, such damage is minimized.

This was demonstrated in a study at James Madison University. Researchers fed either a regular carbohydrate sports drink or a carbohydrate-protein drink to subjects during a hard stationary bike ride and measured post-exercise levels of creatine phosphokinase (CPK) in the blood. CPK is a biomarker of muscle damage. The subjects receiving the carbohydrate/protein supplement had CPK levels 83% lower than those receiving the carbohydrate supplement, indicating significantly less muscle damage during exercise.
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 19:43   #18
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

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Origineel gepost door marcos
Heb whey zat, dus kan er wel flink van vreten
Maar welke doseringen whey zou je het beste rond en tijdens de trainingen kunnen nemen?
Neem zelf altijd een Whey Amino Drink zit tussen de 15 en 30 mg aan
amino's in met Dextrose, als je gewone whey neemt zou ik me aan het bovenstaande vast houden. Je kunt ook BCAA-poeder nemen met dextrose.

Dit is simpel in te passen in je schema..... en kan je uit ervaring zeggen dat het super werkt , wist niet dat een simpele aanpassing zoveel resultaat kon brengen
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 19:59   #19
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

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Origineel gepost door Dave Hawk
Neem zelf altijd een Whey Amino Drink zit tussen de 15 en 30 mg aan amino's in met Dextrose,

Weet je zeker dat je mg bedoel ? ?
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Oud zo 27 mrt 2005, 20:33   #20
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Re: Voeding tijdens workout  

sorry ff een stuk paashaas in mijn oog , moet gram zijn
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