Indole-3-Carbinol

[nutz]

Supplementatie van 500mg Indole-3-Carbinol deed volgens een proef oestrogeen niveaus dalen met 50% in gezonde mannen. Deze stof komt voor in o.a. bloemkool, spruiten en witte kool. Mijn vraag is; hoeveel bloemkool moet men eten om aan 500mg te raken? Zijn er manieren om de opname te verbeteren?

[wazzup]

Ik heb zo het vermoeden dat het je niet gaat lukken om genoeg bloemkool te eten.

The amount used to treat early-stage cervical cancer was 200 or 400 mg per day. The amount used to treat respiratory tract papillomas was 200 mg twice a day for adults and smaller amounts for children, based on body weight. The optimal level of intake is not known. Approximately 7 ounces of raw cabbage or Brussels sprouts provides 200 mg of indole-3-carbinol.

En een ounce is iets als 25 gram ?
(en vergeet broccoli niet)

[3XL]

Vraag me alleen af wat de verlaging betekend voor de T/E verhouding en mn vrije T.

[nutz]

Dus het zou toch beter als supplement te nemen zijn... Nu vraag ik me alleen af of het veilig is om de hormoonbalans op deze manier te beïnvloeden met bv. 500mg supplementatie per dag en zo ja, waar dit supplement te koop is. Het goedkoopste dat ik tot nu toe heb kunnen vinden is 69 USD voor 120 capsules van 400mg, maar de verzending vanuit de VS kost minstens 55 USD (moet expedited verstuurd worden omdat dit product niet bestand is tegen hoge temperaturen) en dan zijn importkosten/douane nog niet inbegrepen...

[DR P]

Origineel gepost door 3XL

Vraag me alleen af wat de verlaging betekend voor de T/E verhouding en mn vrije T.

IC3 is ook een anti-adrogeen.

[nutz]

Inderdaad:

The effects of DIM as an anti-androgen were purportedly similar to Casodex(a prescription antiandrogen). This site notes that side effects such as loss of libido, loss of muscle mass and strength, and gynecomastia("bitch tits") would seem to make sense given the fact that testosterone is being blocked at the receptors.
http://www.prostate-cancer.org/education/andeprv/AntiAndrogen_Monotherapy.html

It appears that DIM acts to improve estrogen metabolism and also to block androgen receptors. Good for those with prostate cancer but potentially counter productive to those looking to build or maintain muscle mass. The androgen receptors which cause the prostate cancer cell to grow also cause muscle cells to grow

Schrappen van het lijstje van mogelijke supplementen dan maar

[nutz]

Zou deze dokter er dan niets vanaf weten?

Question:

Dear Dr. Dean, I read on Wikipedia that 3,3-Diindolylmethane has anti-androgenic properties. As a 57-year-old male I am considering a combination of AndroAmp and BioDIM® to raise free testosterone and handle excess estrogen. Would taking these two products together be contra-indicated due to the anti-androgenic effects of BioDIM? Thanks again for the best health products available anywhere. Mr. B.


Answer:

Dear Mr. B., I don’t know of any anti-androgenic properties of BioDIM— only its estrogen-controlling properties. If it does possess some unknown anti-androgenic properties, I believe they are far overshadowed by its beneficial effect of metabolizing excess estrogen. You might also consider adding Resveratrol for its aromatase-inhibiting properties. Aromatase is the enzyme that promotes the conversion of testosterone to estrogen and will thus work in combination to enhance the benefits of BioDIM. Ward Dean, MD

[Miss Deadlift]

@ nutz: 3,3'-diindolylmethaan is niet indool-3-methanol(=indool-3-carbinol..)

@Dr. P: Waar blijkt uit dat I3C een anti-androgeen is?


@3XL, door oestrogenen te verlagen verlaagt in principe ook SHBG en verhoogt dus vrije T ten opzichte van totale T; maar of het echt zo werkt zal je toch per stof moeten bekijken vrees ik..

[DR P]

Screening of synthetic and plant-derived compounds for (anti)estrogenic and (anti)androgenic activities.


Bovee TF, Schoonen WG, Hamers AR, Bento MJ, Peijnenburg AA.
Department of Safety & Health, RIKILT-Institute of Food Safety, P.O. Box 230, 6700 AE, Wageningen, The Netherlands, toine.bovee@wur.nl.

Recently we constructed yeast cells that either express the human estrogen receptor alpha or the human androgen receptor in combination with a consensus ERE or ARE repeat in the promoter region of a green fluorescent protein (yEGFP) read-out system. These bioassays were proven to be highly specific for their cognate agonistic compounds. In this study the value of these yeast bioassays was assessed for analysis of compounds with antagonistic properties. Several pure antagonists, selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) and plant-derived compounds were tested. The pure antiestrogens ICI 182,780 and RU 58668 were also classified as pure ER antagonists in the yeast estrogen bioassay and the pure antiandrogen flutamide was also a pure AR antagonist in the yeast androgen bioassay. The plant-derived compounds flavone and guggulsterone displayed both antiestrogenic and antiandrogenic activities, while 3,3'-diindolylmethane (DIM) and equol combined an estrogenic mode of action with an antiandrogenic activity. Indol-3-carbinol (I3C) only showed an antiandrogenic activity. Coumestrol, genistein, naringenin and 8-prenylnaringenin were estrogenic and acted additively, while the plant sterols failed to show any effect. Although hormonally inactive, in vitro and in vivo metabolism of the aforementioned plant sterols may still lead to the formation of active metabolites in other test systems.

Deze studie geeft aan dat IC3 ook nog een ongunstige estrogene metaboliet heeft.


1: Biochemistry. 2000 Feb 8;39(5):910-8. Links
The major cyclic trimeric product of indole-3-carbinol is a strong agonist of the estrogen receptor signaling pathway.Riby JE, Feng C, Chang YC, Schaldach CM, Firestone GL, Bjeldanes LF.
Division of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology, and Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720, USA.

Indole-3-carbinol (I3C), a component of Brassica vegetables, is under study as a preventive agent of cancers of the breast and other organs. Following ingestion, I3C is converted to a series of oligomeric products that presumably are responsible for the in vivo effects of I3C. We report the effects of the major trimeric product, 5,6,11,12,17,18-hexahydrocyclonona[1,2-b:4,5-b':7,8-b' ']triindole (CTr), on the estrogen receptor (ER) signaling pathways. Tumor-promoting effects of high doses of I3C may be due to activation of aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AhR)-mediated pathways; therefore, we also examined the effects of CTr on AhR activated processes. We observed that CTr is a strong agonist of ER function. CTr stimulated the proliferation of estrogen-responsive MCF-7 cells to a level similar to that produced by estradiol (E(2)) but did not affect the growth of the estrogen-independent cell line, MDA-MD-231. CTr displaced E(2) in competitive-binding studies and activated ER-binding to an estrogen responsive DNA element in gel mobility shift assays with EC(50)s of about 0.1 microM. CTr activated transcription of an E(2)-responsive endogenous gene and exogenous reporter genes in transfected MCF-7 cells, also with high potency. CTr failed to activate AhR-mediated pathways, consistent with the low-binding affinity of CTr for the AhR reported previously. Comparisons of the conformational characteristics of CTr with other ER ligands indicated a remarkable similarity with tamoxifen, a selective ER antagonist used as a breast cancer therapeutic agent and suggest an excellent fit of CTr into the ligand-binding site of the ER.




Zoals ik in een PCT topic al aangaf, denk ik niet dat er op dit moment een definitief oordeel over de voordelen tov de nadelen van IC3 kan worden gegeven.

[Miss Deadlift]

Tsja, de wageningse studie is er duidelijk over zo te zien.
en dat metabolieten verhaal geeft ook te denken inderdaad.

Als het een oestrogeen agonist produceert dan is het eigenlijk ook wel te verklaren waarom de oestrogeen niveaus daalden bij die mensen: negatieve feedback reactie op de "exogene oestrogenen" (of is dat weer iets te kort door de bocht)

[nutz]

Origineel gepost door Miss Deadlift

@ nutz: 3,3'-diindolylmethaan is niet indool-3-methanol(=indool-3-carbinol..)

Inderdaad, maar I3C en DIM zijn gelijkaardig in werking, vandaar dat ik overgeschakeld ben naar het opzoeken van informatie over DIM.