Alternatieve post cycle treatment

[krieltje]

Ok luitjes,

We hebben de normale gang om in onze pct nolva of clomid te gebruiken.
Hcg standaard in een naluur is not done omdat ook HCG onderdrukt.

Ik heb Ronny wat alternatieve gevraagd omtrent PCT,wat ook goed is,maar NET ff anders.

PoWeR pct by William Llewellyn van BOS:

week 1-2 2500iu HCG eod
week 1-3 100mg Clomid ed
week 1-6 20mg Tamoxifen ed

En deze,wat ook erg interesant is.
Het is inzetbaar voor zowel Test gebruikers maar zeer goed geschikt om je PCT af te ronden als je gekuurt hebt met 19 nor deriviaten zoals Trenbolone en nandrolone.

Week 1-4 5000iu HCG per week
Week 1-2 Parlodel Bromocriptine deze is wat complexer.

Je bouwt op,omdat bromocriptine een wat heftig middel is,waarbij te snel te hoge dosis je een beroerd gevoel kan geven.Overgens is het middel op zich niet schadelijk maximaal ingenomen dagdosis als overdosis staat op 350 mg,dit gaf geen schadelijk effect.

Dag 1-2 neem 1 halve tablet 2x per dag (meestal wordt parlodel geleverd in 2,5mg tab)
Dag 3-4 3x halve tablet verdeelt met 8 uur tussentijd.

Parlodel heeft een halfwaardetijd van 8-20 uur.

Dag 5-14 neem 2x daags 1 tablet


Hieronder een stukje over iemand die deze stack als PCT gebruikt.

Op dit moment doe ik deze ook,en zit nu op de derde dag.

Here is a great combo from my doc, i went to him last Jan with my levels messed up after some cycles.So he wrote me some blood tests first & after he saw the results put me on a weird combo to be honest i was skeptical with "How this will work" because from my reading all this years i never read anything about HCG/Bromo combo so after he put me on it i felt great sense of well being during the treatment & i thought yea this is only bcoz am on the treatment but now i stopped the treatment & its been more than month & i'm feeling great & been off training for 3wks bcoz of studying now & didnt lose any size & i'm dieting only & doing great lost alot of fat weight & i'm very happy.

Btw ask SJ he tried this & told me he wont do anything else for PCT & its really a great coïtus drive booster.

Here is how the doc told me it work Bromo lower prolactin levels & when the happenes it the testosterone levels rises normally + HCG you know it increase the LH levels so with both combos you will experince great PCT & improved coïtus drive instead of Nolva that cause estrogen to flow in your body & causes later gyno or clomid that causes depression & nightmares PLUS if you use more than 1 progesting compounds in the same cycle like deca/tren/winny then this will help ALOT reducing the elevated prolactin levels after you stopped the treatment.So far for me personally this is the best PCT combo i have ever used.

Here is how my doc told me to do this combo its for total 4wks only :

Note : you start both compounds together, start the bromo at the same day you shoot HCG & continue your bromo everyday for 14 days along with HCG shot every week.

HCG for 4 weeks :

5000 I.U every week

Bromo for 14 days :

first 2 days half tab twice a day

second 2 days half tab three times a day

then 10 days 1 tab twice a day

After you finish the treatment dont go & do blood test right away you should wait for a month like my doc said because if you tested right away you will see the levels naturally elevated because of the treatment but what we want is to see the real levels after it get settel down & the compounds leave the body then we can tell if there is an improvment ot not.

From now on i wont do anything regarding AAS without consulting with my doctor, now i been off AAS for 8 months since last july & thinking of winny cycle only so i'll see what my doc thinks of this soon.Doctors are GREAT if they are open minded


Hierbij wil ik Ron van BOS ff bedanken voor hopelijk een goed alternatief.

 

[ironaddicted]

Goede post kriel, bedankt voor je inzet
Alleen die hcg 5000 iu per week vindt ik te hoog, omdat deze je leydig cellen kunnen beschadigen.

 

[SubGenius]

Weer een super post van je Kriel. Karma


edit:

je moet wat verdelen...bla,bla,bla

 

[krieltje]

Goede post kriel, bedankt voor je inzet
Alleen die hcg 5000 iu per week vindt ik te hoog, omdat deze je leydig cellen kunnen beschadigen.

Nee blijkt dus weer achterhaald te zijn als je het verdeeld over 7 dagen,is er niets aan de hand.

Ik heb eens een bloeding gehad omdat ik iedere dag 2500 zetten,dit duurde al ffies toen het verkeerd ging.
Maar ik had afgelopen zondag nog maar 2 hazelnootjes,misschien wel kleiner dan dat.
Ben nu ruim 6000 verder,en ze reageren nog steeds op de toegediende hcg.

Probleem met hoge dosering in 1 shot of hoge dosering vele dagen achter elkaar hoog,is dat je testikels onder hoge druk komen te staan,en je receptoren steeds zwakker gaan rageren op de LH,omdat ze simpelweg beschadigen en oververzadigd worden,en niet meer op de minimale normale prikkel door de hypofische reageren.

 

[ironaddicted]

Kriel bedankt voor je uitleg

 

[pumaatje]

thnx voor de post!

 

[Yin Yang]

Nou super uitleg mart en geheel duidelijk, lekker dat er toch nog wat aan kleine noten gedaan kan worden.

 

[skydirk]

ik veronderstel dat bromocriptine enkel bij de apotheker met recept verkrijgbaar is.

 

[Sava]

Thx mart!

 

[klaas]

Nee blijkt dus weer achterhaald te zijn als je het verdeeld over 7 dagen,is er niets aan de hand.

Ik heb eens een bloeding gehad omdat ik iedere dag 2500 zetten,dit duurde al ffies toen het verkeerd ging.
Maar ik had afgelopen zondag nog maar 2 hazelnootjes,misschien wel kleiner dan dat.
Ben nu ruim 6000 verder,en ze reageren nog steeds op de toegediende hcg.

Probleem met hoge dosering in 1 shot of hoge dosering vele dagen achter elkaar hoog,is dat je testikels onder hoge druk komen te staan,en je receptoren steeds zwakker gaan rageren op de LH,omdat ze simpelweg beschadigen en oververzadigd worden,en niet meer op de minimale normale prikkel door de hypofische reageren.

was jij niet diegene die destijds zei dat 5000iu 1x in de 7 dagen achterhaald was?

 

[krieltje]

Lijkt me stug. Er is altijd wel beweert dat hgh zou onderdrukken als pct. Hiervoor zou het samen met nolva gezet moeten worden, om dit tegen te gaan . Het vreemde is dat ik niet begrijp wat parlodel prcs doet,maar in de bijsluiter staat dat het ook ingezet wordt om virulisatie op te heffen bij mannen. Ik heb wel een testes bloeding gehad met 3 weken op 15000 iu.

Overgebs niet geheel onverstandig om ff af te wachten wat het mij op gaat leveren.dus wacht ff met dit schema tot ik klaar ben en mijn bevindingen neerpen

 

[wesmeister]

was jij niet diegene die destijds zei dat 5000iu 1x in de 7 dagen achterhaald was?

zn hoge dosis rade hij af ivm beschadiging leydig cellen zover k me kan herinneren...

 

[Bodybeast]

Yep zoiets staat me ook bij...

500 iu per week was voldoende heb ik toen gelezen.

 

[krieltje]

Nogmaals niemand hoeft dit te doen.Ik ben een jaar on geweest en had dit echt hard nodig omdat de laatste maand ik vreselijk last had,en ik niet meer langer op 500iu reageerde.

Ik ben in dit geval proefkonijn.Maar ik vertrouw Ronnie op Bos blindelings,en dit was zijn adves.

Als dat PoWer pct door de auteur van anabolics gedaan word,die altijd kritisch tegenover hoge doseringen staat,en toch een advies van endocrinologen krijgt om viriliteit met deze dosisen te bestrijden......why not me?

 

[krieltje]

STUKJE BASIS HCG.

Hier stukje over HCG,over kleine en hoge dosis enjoy


George Spellwin






HCG - Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Use After Anabolic Steroid Cycles for Bodybuilding

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone. (1) More specifically LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.

When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during PCT. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.


Eric M. Potratz

Eric M. Potratz has developed his education in the field of endocrinology and performance enhancement through years of research, counseling, and real world experience. Over the past five years he has been a private consultant for hundreds of athletes and bodybuilders alike, and is the founder & president of Primordial Performance.
Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.


To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.


The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production. 20)


These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. (11) For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. (11) Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes (12,13,19 ) -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)

Discuss HCG on the EliteFitness.com Forums:

Instead of AAS, could one do an HCG cycle?
is HCG illegal?
can you stack hcg with sustanon
mixing Hcg for PCT
Fake organon HCG?
HCG storage?
HCG: 10 days straight vs. 3x/wk for 3 weeks
Can i get away with pct without hcg?
Trying to figure out if I should do HCG...and when
would u use vet hcg?
HCG/pregnyl
Advice with Fina, Sustanon, Clomid and HCG
How to prepare HCG? Vial in Water , Vial in Powder? Help

Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

Recap:

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.


More Articles by Eric M. Potratz owner of Primordial Performance and designer of Dermacrine as well as the world famous 1-T product.

- 1-T is here… 15lbs of solid muscle in 6 weeks or less… Legally!

- Phyto-Testosterone: a scientifically proven, orally active Testosterone mimicker!

- Muscle Builder: 1-Androsterone & 5-Androstene in Transdermal 1-T

 

[Cables]

Nogmaals niemand hoeft dit te doen.Ik ben een jaar on geweest en had dit echt hard nodig omdat de laatste maand ik vreselijk last had,en ik niet meer langer op 500iu reageerde.

Ik ben in dit geval proefkonijn.Maar ik vertrouw Ronnie op Bos blindelings,en dit was zijn adves.

Als dat PoWer pct door de auteur van anabolics gedaan word,die altijd kritisch tegenover hoge doseringen staat,en toch een advies van endocrinologen krijgt om viriliteit met deze dosisen te bestrijden......why not me?

Klinkt erg goed bro. Ik hoor trouwens van veel beesten dat ze alleen nakuren met HCG en nolvadex alleen pakken als ze last van gyno hebben en het dus onzinnig vinden om daarmee na te kuren.

Ik ga hem ook proberen.

Verdeel je die HCG over de week trouwens of zet je hem in 1 keer?

 

[krieltje]

ABSOLUUT verdelen

 

[Dimos]

Subbed.

Ik hou je ook in het oog Mart.

Misschien hanteer ik ook bromo en hcg voor men nakuur want ik ga heel lang op 19-nor geweest zijn en vlug en goed hertsel is een must.

Succes Bunny

 

[Cables]

ABSOLUUT verdelen

Kan ik dan 3x 1666iu zetten ? Bijvoorbeeld ma,wo,vrij ?

 

[krieltje]

Zou per inject niet hoger dan 1500 gaan